Sunday, February 15, 2015

Questions from Relief Society today and other things

We ran out of time so quickly, and I had a few more questions, and I am sure you all did too. I thought perhaps we could use this forum to ask and answer each others questions. These relate to Chapter 4 in the Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson manual

1. How do you quantify and measure happiness? What do you correlate happiness to? We are often taught that the gospel is the only way to true happiness, and that by living the principles of the gospel we will find happiness. I have always generally understood that this meant in the next life and not necessarily this life, were others taught the same? Or do you feel that living the gospel means you will be happy in this life? Is living the gospel, in your opinion, the only way to happiness? These were some of the questions that came up in my mind during today's Relief Society lesson. I see many happy, and unhappy people, both religious and secular. A religious or secular paradigm does not seem to be what causes happiness or unhappiness outright, it is much more than that. What are the things that make you happy, and do you believe it is more our attitude than anything? 

2. We are taught that faith without works is dead, can we say the same of the inverse: Works without Faith is dead? We are taught those without knowledge of the plan will have the opportunity to learn about and accept it in the afterlife, but what about those of us who already had the knowledge and lost our ability to believe in it? By continuing to be good people who follow the commandments are we still able to obtain Celestial Glory, or are we less than because we could not believe, even though we continued to be good people? 

3. In studying for this lesson, I went to this link on LDS living: http://ldsliving.com/story/77704-teachings-of-ezra-taft-benson-lesson-4-living-joyfully-in-troubled-times. Here they make the following statement: "The only reason for unhappiness is sin." I know this goes along with question one, but I really wanted to drill down to this one thought because I do not agree with it, but perhaps that goes back to how you define happiness? I think that there are many who suffer in our world and are genuinely unhappy because of forces they have no control over. I am thinking war, famine, disease, etc. I feel that by saying the only reason you are able to be unhappy is if you sin is a bit demeaning to these people who suffer from unhappiness because of the issues I listed, and others. Thoughts?

4. Next I wanted to discuss this from the last section of the lesson: "There is no happiness
when you fail to live according to your convictions, according to that which you know to be right." This is one of my Catch-22's with Mormonism. That which I know to be right, the truth right now, is often in direct confrontation with what I am sometimes taught in church. I know this goes along with our post/discussion on truth, but to me, what I know to be right isn't always in line with the gospel. Does anyone else ever feel this way? How do I live my convictions if they are not in line with the gospel, what if what I vehemently feel to be right is in direct opposition to something the church stands for? 

5. Lastly, I wanted to discuss this closing statement from the lesson: "We will never be alone if we live as we should, because our Father will always be with us to bless us. He wants us to be successful. He wants us to be happy. He wants us to achieve the good goals we set. He will do His part if we do our part." Success can be defined in many different ways, and so can good goals, but I feel so often that we mold these definitions to prove our hypothesis regardless of the outcome. If a man is faithful and poor his whole life, we just say he was successful in other ways, or perhaps if our goals are not obtained we say they were not righteous or good by God's standards. If a man is successful all his life and happens to be a member we automatically want to hold him as an example of receiving the promised blessings, even though his success may have nothing to do with it. Regardless of if the outcome is A or B we always say that the outcome points to proof of our beliefs. This concept has been driving me crazy lately, literally. This idea is making me feel like a mad woman because I cannot buy it. I cannot believe that literally, regardless of the outcome, that it points to proof of this religion being true, which is what my quest is right now. It seems to me that God would want nulls in the hypothesis so we could know with certainty of his existence, of his plan. But I feel so often that there is no room for nulls in Mormonism. I feel God would not make belief and knowledge of him this hard, a loving earthly father would make things as easy as possible for his children to find him, to know him, to fully believe and comprehend him, and I feel that a heavenly father would do the same. Too often I find myself seeing the lack of these nulls, these absolutes in Mormonism, that everyone is able to believe without issue, and I feel like I must be nutty for not being able to see it the same way. I think all the time about the statements in the scripture that talk about asking for a sign and how it is such an awful thing to do, and I think, am I asking for a sign because I want to know? Is that why I am not being given an answer. Then the other side of me says, no, we are taught any man who asks will have the answers given to him. So why not me? I know people are able to live for years without answers to their questions, but I do not think I am that person. I can feel myself reaching a breaking point, where I need something answered, something to make sense. Because not having these answers is making me unhappy in the church. Am I not doing my part enough that he will do his? I was just promised in this lesson that very thing, and yet, it does not happen for me, and I feel that a Heavenly Father would know me well enough to know I am reaching my limit, when is he going to reach out and give me the answer? Does he not love me enough to give me what I need to continue on? You see all these questions and paradoxes that arise in my mind just from this one statement? Church is very hard when you have a brain like mine :)



7 comments:

  1. Okay, I know I told you you should blog and I'm SO GLAD you did, but there is no way I'm going to be able to answer all of these in a comment! So here are a few thoughts for you :)

    I think everyone has their own definition of "happiness" and that is okay. Also I don't think anyone can really judge how happy anyone else is based on appearances. I also was always taught subliminally that happiness was a long-term goal (in the afterlife) and that's how we explain that people like the pioneers (who didn't have "happy" lives) still could find happiness. I do think that a higher purpose tends to lead to happiness--but I'm not sure everyone requires God to be part of that higher purpose. I think many people find true happiness, fulfillment, purpose, and peace (which I think are all part of happiness) in finding purpose in their lives (Man's Search for Meaning is a good book on this). So I guess you could chalk it up to attitude or a personal paradigm--it just depends on how you define it.

    I do think works without faith is dead but not because simply being a good person isn't enough. I think that as we progress through both this life and the next we will continue to be tested and tried--to the breaking point of our faith. I think that we will need our faith, even if we don't need it to do the basic "good people" things here. I guess what I'm saying is that I think we underestimate the things God is going to ask of us--at some point in everyone's journey it will get hard and you will need faith. Perhaps even faith you thought had disappeared.

    I am also a BIG believer in "you fake it til you make it." That can be incredibly exhausting but I think that even "faking it" is a sign of faith that ultimately there will be a "make it" moment. And that faith is like Alma's "desire to believe"--even if there's nothing there but hope, it's still a sign of faith in SOMETHING.

    I don't agree AT ALL that the only reason for unhappiness is sin. You already know I hate black and white over-generalizations like this. But coming at it from another angle it is an extremely judgmental and harsh statement. Thought experiment: a girl is trafficked and spends her life as a prostitute. Is she unhappy because she is sinning? NO! She is unhappy because other people are sinning. There is no light in her life, sure, but that's not the cause of her unhappiness. Closer to home: A woman is incredibly depressed after her baby is born. Is she sinning? No, she has a hormonal or medical imbalance.

    That being said, I do think this comes down to definitions a lot of times. Last week in Relief Society we talked about the differences in being happy and at peace, or unhappy and being in disharmony with God. I think a lot of people in the church consider happiness to be harmony with God. So that does change things a bit if that's how you are defining happiness.

    As far as your number four goes--I have no idea. I'm still working through most of my issues with how to live with integrity when I feel something in the church or gospel is wrong. I'm excited to see what other people have to say on this!

    I'm going to come back to your number five since this comment is basically a blog post already! But I think that it will be best if lots of different people comment, so you should totally send this out on Facebook and to your people :) Thanks again for blogging. It made for great reading and thinking this morning. You should totally start doing this for the lesson coming up too so we can start thinking about it before Sunday at 3pm :)


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    1. That is such a great idea to discuss these things BEFORE the lesson. Thanks for the suggestion, I think it would be cool to do that.

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  2. The comment or above did such a good job that I'm not sure I'll even contribute much, but I've been thinking about this post a lot this morning. I often think of joy vs fun when I think about true happiness. Fun things can make you happy, but that happiness is more temporary. Where as joy is a more long term happiness. I don't know if that's helpful at all, but it helps me categorize things in my mind. I think about high school and some of college and I wouldn't trade those times for anyrhkng, but I think it was more fun that I was having and as I've gotten older I feel myself experiencing and understanding true joy even more. I think the gospel iseant to help is find joy in the afterlife, but I think it's meant just as much to help us find joy in this life. I don't think it's the only way we find joy, but I think it may be what has the potential to give us the most joy.
    I also think that the statement that the only reason for being unhappy is because of sin. I wonder if in this situation he was speaking of the afterlife? I'm not sure. The statement is really confusing to me because we are also taught that sorrow is a godly attribute, but maybe it's a definition misunderstanding. I do know that unhappiness can absolutely be caused by circumstances and chemical imbalance. Maybe what was meant was that only sin can cause permanent unhappiness? And I think even then it would only be because of one never repenting at all.

    I am also still working on what to do when something I feel to be right isnt in harmony with the gospel. Is venture a guess that a lot of people in the church are working on this one. It's so confusing. I guess that's where faith comes in? I guess all we can do is continue to search for the answers. Maybe there's more to the big picture then we can even begin to understand.

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  3. Thank you both for your comments! I just came across this verse while doing my scripture study today, I think it refutes my claims about no nulls in Mormonism. Clearly the Lord does believe in a scientific method of sorts to receiving answers, there must be opposition in all things, correct? Otherwise what is the point of our agency and learning? Anyway, here is the Hypothesis for knowing truths. It still does not help me feel confident in not receiving answers, but it helps me feel less crazy:

    D&C 9:8 "But behold I say unto you that you must study it out in your mind; then you must ask me if it be right, and if it be right I will cause that your bosom shall burn within you. Therefore you shall feel that it is right."

    So first, we have to study things out. (or create our Hypothesis)
    Second we ask if the things we have studied are right (Test our hypothesis)
    Third, if the hypothesis is correct, we will see a direct answer that it is correct OR NOT (which is a possibility) by either receiving the burning in our bosom or not.

    This verse seems to point to a pretty strict causation and correlation to seeking answers, am I taking it too literally?

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    1. I have never thought about it like that, but I think you're onto something. I think also that, just like anything using a scientific type method, sometimes we have to test our hypothesis and put it onto practice before we can get answers. But waiting for answers is the worst. At least for me! But I also know I grow the most when I'm seeking and waiting for answers to things.

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  4. I have so many thoughts on so much of this and I just don't even know where to begin. Going off of you last comment though Linds, it made me think of the Mormon message by Elder Holland I think where he and his son are out and forget which road to take to get home, they pray about it and receive the answer to go right. They drive down a little ways and before too long find out it is a dead end. They were led the wrong way through prayer. They went to the very end of that wrong road. BUT, by doing this, they could know without a doubt that the other way was the one that would lead them home.
    I really do think that often God will let His children go down the absolutely wrong path, and they may go all the way you the end of that road. I believe that He trusts us and wants us to learn from our decisions. He wants us to use our free agency. As much as you are struggling right now and it pains me to see, I don't know that He will just jump in and always give an immediate answer. For some people and some situations, He has. And those are always amazing stories to hear. But I think for the vast majority of people, that isn't going to happen.
    This is where faith is HUGE. If the answers were given whenever we asked, if there was only one very obviously true religion in the world, if the Bible and Book of Mormon were perfectly accurate, if Joseph Smith had been a perfect man, if the history of any religion was sound and clean.. I could go on and on with this list. I think things are confusing and push us for a reason. Where would be the need for faith and strength if all the answers were so easy? I do get what you're saying Linds, that it would be nice and it would make sense that He would want to point us all in the right direction and lay everything out for us. But then there wouldn't be much of a decision to make, would there? We have to take the knowledge we have, keep learning, keep testing our faith, keep asking the hard questions and finding the answers that resonate and make sense to us. Faith is something you have to continually work on and keep building.

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    1. ...Having gone to high school in California with a couple pretty in-your-face type LDS bashers, I have heard a lot of it and I'm sure there is even more that I haven't uncovered yet. The history of the church is messy and it's leaders were imperfect ..and none of us were there to get the whole story of what happened. With all of the blunders of the past, I love the gospel for what it teaches. That is my religion. It is not the life of Joseph Smith or Brigham Young or any of the leaders past or present. It is not the practices of the past that are so obviously wrong today. I love the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints because of the hope and peace and happiness its teachings have brought to my life. The things that I have learned make sense to me. It makes sense to me to have life after death, to be able to continue to live and grow there with my family that I love so very much. I love the peace that has been given to me through the atonement of Christ. That is the biggest part of it all. I can be imperfect and still have happiness in this life and the next because of His mercy and love and atoning sacrifice. I believe that Christ will be there fighting and pleading each of our cases individually when that judgment day comes.
      There is just so much I have to say and I can't put it all into something coherent. I believe that religion in general, any religion, is going to be imperfect. There will always be questions that will challenge your faith. But those same things can strengthen your faith. I love religion and I think they are all beautiful. I think everyone should have questions. Any person listening and really yearning to know God will have questions. I think the biggest thing is you find the religion that makes sense to you. For me, the things I know from being a Mormon resonate with me. They just make sense. They make me happy and bring me peace. There will always be things that are hard and will challenge your faith.
      And that's the end of that rant because my thoughts are coming at a million miles. Hah. I love this blog though and reading all the input from others.
      Love you Linds. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

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